Unmaking the road to hell.
I missed this one Monday at the Plan Commission. Petition PC-12-09 is for the redevelopment of a single family home at 4929 Montgomery Avenue on the near northwest side.
The plans call for an significantly larger home to replace the house currently there, and consolidates two lots into one. The home scheduled to be build looks to be a beauty. Very large, but well proportioned to the lot, and using a combination of materials and features, such as flanged eaves and an excellent eyebrow feature to soften the look and add an aged grace to brand new construction. And by combining lots the side yard setback requirements actually double to ten feet.
Although some trees will be lost, it is the prerogative of the landowner to remove trees. The owners in this case are acting responsibly to the community tree canopy, and the plans call for those outside of the immediate construction foot print to be saved. The owners have also stayed within the bounds of muni ordinances with regards to front, side, and rear setback requirements.
Although the house is large enough that it will dwarf the immediate neighbors, it fits the requirements for bulk and mass, and asks for no variances. The plan offers a welcome variant for garage siting, avoiding the “snout house” appearance of a three car garage protruding from the front of the house proper, by turning two of the three garage spaces sideways and moving them back into the house footprint, rather than sticking out front to the street.
The site as shown has a slight slope to the rear of the property, sloping east and south with the general topology of the neighborhood, and therein lies a problem. The planned house will have over twice the roof area as what is being replaced, and that water will run off into gutters and downspouts to the ground. Much of the roof will drain to the rear of the house. The sump pump output will also be routed to the backyard, where it will exit to the ground.
Although the slope is a matter of mere feet water moves to the lowest point, and here the lowest point is in the neighbors backyards to the east and south. Flooding aggravated or caused by run off from newer development has been a front burner issue for residents on the receiving end of the water. In the past two months, council has heard from at least two residents regarding new flooding problems that did not exist even 3-4 years ago, but that exist now. They contend the new construction in the neighborhood that has also occurred in the last 3-5 years is to blame, have brought pictures of flooding to show council, and have asked for council’s help. Right now, council is overseeing help on a massive scale: close to $100 million in storm-water projects, a huge borrowing and spending commitment to specifically mitigate the destructive effects of flooding is in process.
Every corner of the village has it’s “poster child” for thoughtless development that leads to flooding, and it’s usually the big new house crammed down into a small lot, but here, the big new house is on what is, in essence, a big new lot; the owners appear to be trying to do the right things.
The problem is routing the water output to the back yard, and then calling it a day, expecting no further steps need be taken. Everyone saw how soggy the entire village was last week. The ground was saturated and wasn’t taking in any more. Low spots on driveways were being pumped, sumps were running 24/7, the village was slowly soaking up the excess. History says this development will trigger another couple of unhappy residents who will soon find their water problems getting worse instead of better.
NIMBY. Please.
There are two healthy mature trees in the immediate area that will soak up some of that output, over 1,200 gallons of water in the first 24 hours (and producing a lot of oxygen in the process-I’ll leave that for another day) but after 24 hours most tree species have diminished absorptive capacity. The sump will keep pumping so long as water is being collected from around the foundation and fed into the sump. that water will continue to appear in the back yard, along with roof run-off in excess of what the ground normally would absorb.
And that causes flooding. It won’t flood the new house because the output will move downhill, away from the house; but it will move towards the houses south and east, creating a water problem for them that previously did not exist. Add to that the next two houses to the south have much of their lots covered with impervious surfaces; they too add to run-off.
55th Street as additional Barth Pond detention.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. The village has always walked a thin line between individual property rights, and what is in the best interest of the larger community. Several commissioners now have direct experience and exposure to flooding issues, whether that be via the Storm-water Commission, the Environmental Concerns Commission, or by being out in the rain clearing drains. This would serve as a good place and an opportune time for council to begin the long and difficult process of tying together storm-water best management practices, development guidelines, construction codes, community development planning, and zoning.
What council might start thinking about is requiring features to be built-in to correct this situation. Dry wells, rain barrels, and cisterns can provide storage for water run-off up to their capacity, and that water can be used later on the lawn or on flowers and plants. Rain water, if you haven’t tried it, has a growing group of gardening fans for it’s overall high quality.
Some of his now...
Another surface feature, rain gardens can also be used in these situations. Rain gardens are landscaping features that provide dry bottom detention much like the Washington Park project, but on a much smaller scale that fits onto a single lot. They slow and hold water on the surface, allowing it to filter into the ground, be absorbed by suitable water thirsty plants, and evaporate into the air. The cost of installing such a feature is usually several hundred to a couple thousand dollars, and most landscapers can easily incorporate a sensible rain garden sized for the task by working with the architect and builder-which they already will be doing for new construction. Given the size and scope of this home construction, and of most new construction in the village, this is a tiny portion of the project’s expense, and adds an interesting feature visible from the back patio.
... or more of this later? Take your pick.
The theory here is to slow, filter, and mitigate as much water as possible right where it lands instead of accumulating and moving it downhill to somewhere else. That somewhere else already is getting the same waterfall, and adding to that is creating the problems council is now seeing. Historically the trend of allowing developers to move costs downstream to the village at a later date happens by council inaction.
Creating solutions, as the village council has been able to demonstrate, requires actions that may not result in immediate remedy, but shows responsible leadership, and mindful regard for the health, safety, and welfare of the community. A rain garden or similar devices with a modest cost to the builder/developer/owner, to slow and mitigate water run-off from the property, are a wide contrast to the community later paying millions to fix an entire neighborhood, or even tens of thousands to place pipes later to carry backyard flooding down an easement to the nearest storm sewer, in the process doing nothing to slow and mitigate run-off.
Now that MT is providing more content, does that mean that the blog is going to micro analyze every house, road, tree removal etc…in town? That could get old.
Lunesta? Who needs it! Thomesta is cheaper and just as effective! Ask your Dr. about Thomesta!
(sorry, I can’t help myself..
Thriftier, not cheaper…
I was thinking the same thing, Chad.
To come back to a question about rainwater, I asked the Mayor about the use of water from a rain barrel during a hosepipe ban and was told that the banning ordinance doesn’t specify where the water comes from. If the village wants to encourage rainwater collection (to help reduce flooding) maybe it should change that and explicitly allow collected rainwater to be used. I’m not suggesting it would go very far towards solving flooding, but every little helps.
You’re right. On site retained water falls under the current odd/even days, but retains that schedule even if a more restrictive ban is put in place for metered water usage.
Good point. Uniform enforcement of code is the usual case, but it would be a minor thing to exempt rain barrel fed non-powered passive retention/dispersal as a way to promote their use.
Lombard feels strongly enough about the positive impact of rain barrels that they rebate up to $80 to homeowners who install them and intercept water from ever getting onto the ground, and set aside about $10,000 each year in the budget for that purpose. I picked up a flyer on it from one of our Stormwater Commissioners about it, as we both attended the last Environmental Concerns Commission meeting.
Now, now Chad and Meat. When your lot, street or area continue to flood this type of issue will hit home.
dgombudsman,
Respectfully, NIMBY is not the issue. Picking apart every little project in town is an issue. No project is perfect but we need to trust that village staff is doing it’s part to make sure village building code is followed and enforced. That is all I meant.
As Ronald Reagan said, “trust but verify.”
Although some trees will be lost, it is the prerogative of the landowner to remove trees.
The drainage and poor planned development in this town is an embarrasment. Wouldn’t MORE trees help flooding ? It is possible to have an effective and reasonable tree preservation and building/drainage ordinace. At the least if you cut a tree down it must be replaced or some such. And what about native lanndscaped detention ponds – there’s a concept.
I dislike the government intruding into our private property rights any more than they already do. Building codes and ordinances are already a clear intrusion into one’s property rights if you compare the codes/ordinances to what the founding fathers originally set forth. The Constitution has been amended so many times that we don’t even know which end is up anymore.
Having said that…If a builder/property owner is building new construction or a tear down construction project I would be ok with them replacing some tree that are cut down. The flooding issue is not going to be resolved by planting tree’s. The village storm water plan will have to deal with the flooding issue by replacing infrastructure. A good infrastructure will trump any tree planting out there. I have lived in many a village in my short 34 years and I would have to say Downers has the most flooding issues of all of them combined. Most of the places where I lived where part of a PUD. Downers grove was not a planned development, therefore there are more storm water concerns. I am sure Pierce Downer did not worry about his storm water run off while building his home.
I love the rain garden and rain barrel rebate (they are pricey) idea. I have new and remodel construction one on each side of me and I have water seeping and flowing at twice the volume. The new lot has no grading or swales, it’s in the plan but the house is not finished and if it is never graded properly I have no recourse anyway. I like the posting too!
KellyDGM wrote, “The new lot has no grading or swales, it’s in the plan but the house is not finished and if it is never graded properly I have no recourse anyway.”
Actually you DO!
With a copy of the grading plans in hand, you can ask the Village to without an occupancy permit until the grading is right. It has worked before.
Don’t delay, start the discussion with the Village now.
But I was told you cannot copy the plans because they are copyrighted drawings?…Are they required to grade before the house is finished?
Thank you I will request to view the plans again and try to get a copy….
Yes, they are required to make the grading match the plan before they get an occupancy permit. Even during construction, drainage must be managed.
It’s a fine point, whether you are entitled to a COPY of the plans, but there is no question you can examine them.
Email or call me directly, let’s not bore all the blog readers with these details.
Right now, here, actually trees are our first line of flooding defense. DG is built on low-land prairie and marshland, complicated by ups and downs in the terrain. When trees have come down in clear cuts and been replaced with roof run-off, well, come to the council meetings and deal with the angry people whose basements now leak and whose back yards now flood.
Personal property rights are great; I would suggest you must be a participant in the community also. No pig farms, no brothels, no floating casino’s even at 40th and Glendenning. By taking down five mature maple trees to make way for my dream home I create a situation where my sump discharges downhill to you, and my roof run-off runs downhill to you. You and your three neighbors now have water problems. Where do my personal property rights to create a problem for you end and where do your property rights to be protected from my actions begin?
Now the quiz:
By taking down those five trees, in the first 24 hours of a rain event:
1) How many gallons of water are not intercepted?
2) How much CO2 is not filtered out of the air?
3) How much O2 is not created?
4) How many degrees hotter is the air where the tree used to be?
Hints:
A gallon of water weighs about 8.3lbs., and has 1.27 x 10^26 molecules of H2O.
18 grams of water = one mole of H2O molecules.
There are 6.02×10^23 molecules in one mole.
Be prepared to show your proofs.
No fair asking anyone named Jaros for the answer.
No way Thoman. In the neighborhood I grew up in there was a retention pond with 10 weeping willow tree’s around it. The pond flooded wise road in Schaumburg on a regular basis even with the trees that surrounded the pond. It’s a good start to plant and save tree’s where applicable.
A good storm water system should handle most rains. There are some rains where there is no storm water system on the planet that will hold the rain water regardless of how many tree’s there are. I know of your fondness for tree’s. Tree’s serve many purposes, but they are not the answer to our storm water issues no matter your complex calculations on the subject.
One last thing about tree’s. How many tree’s can you fit onto a standard Downers Grove lot? I know for a fact that if you have children you want only so many tree’s. I like some open space in my yard for the children to play in. I don’t want tree’s all over my yard preventing me from playing with my children. Tree’s eventually rip up the yard around where they are planted and wreak havoc on foundations, sidewalks and grass. So in my very humble opine, tree’s are nice to look at, provide shade and drink some water but too many tree’s is a nuisance to me and my family.
MT,
With your love of tree’s man, you should have been a Northsider! LOL
“How much O2 is not created?”
“How many degrees hotter is the air where the tree used to be?”
Really?
I miss Elaine’s blog.
Still here, Meat. I haven’t gone anywhere.
But I’ve got to say: I found this post quite interesting, particularly since some of my neighbors may be in the line of fire, er, water.
Trees are one of the needed tools, not a single answer. Many trees had to be cleared from Washington Park to make way for the dry bottom detention areas. Unfortunate, but needed.
1) About 3,000 gallons of water.
2) & 3) A single mature tree can absorb carbon dioxide at a rate of 48 lbs./year and release enough oxygen back into the atmosphere to support both Meat and Chad.
4) It’s usually about 3-4% cooler underneath a tree due to transpiration, so with Meat and Chad under the same tree, it would be a bit under 110 degrees.
I was planning on getting a group of expert taste testers to do some objective (and then increasingly subjective) reviews of the beer offerings in DG pubs, but okay, we’ll let that multi-month project go…
Schaumburg? it all makes sense now Chad…
I’m absolutely certain, as you obviously are Mark, that a Downers Grove homeowner who finds himself with jeans rolled to the knees in a flooded basement, stands among the ruined sofa and warped drywall and asks himself:
‘I wonder what the carbon dioxide absorption rate is for a mature tree’?
I know you now Mark, I should have recognized you sooner but its been many years since college and my memory is not what it was. Your my differential equations professor whose second language was English. I didn’t understand you then and I certainly don’t now.
Neither does anyone else. Perhaps you should start your own blog…??
That same person standing there probably thinks; “What changed in my neighborhood that might have caused this? I wonder if it was that extra water directed to my yard?”
You going to volunteer as a taste tester? We’re looking for someone to pay for it all-you’d be perfect…
I’m in. Finally something I would be good at..
Yes Schaumburg, what do you have to say about it? I am not going to get into a pissin’ match on some blog about where I grew up. Amenity wise Downers doesn’t compare, it’s in Crook County, of course they have everything a resident would ever want.
I love living here in Downers Grove. Downers Grove is a great place to live and raise a family. We just have to take advantage of our neighboring towns for some things. I left good old Crook County for a reason, to leave the oppressive taxation and government run amuck…I love saying amuck!!
I grew up in Beverly – all old houses, brick streets, water pouring down “the ridge” etc. There was no where near the flooding you see here. Also a LOT of trees! My old house was surrounded by tall shady pines. I think a yard full of trees is the best place to play! Planned communities always seem so sterile to me with thier one tree per front yard alloment:)
Chad, for a guy that dishes it out like you do, you’re pretty sensitive about a small dig. relax bud…
I grew up in Downers Grove and there was no where near the flooding you see here now.
Chad, that is so sad what you wrote about trees being in the way of play. We incorporated trees into our games. The big tree in our back yard was base for the ongoing tag games. The base of the tree was a great troll house and you could easily hide behind a tree when you were playing hide and seek. I’m sure we tied a younger sibling to a tree on more than one occasion. I agree with you Kelly a yard full of trees is the best place to play!