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	<title>Comments on: Teaching to the test</title>
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	<link>http://www.dgreport.com/index.php/2009/11/09/teaching-to-the-test/</link>
	<description>News and Views from Downers Grove</description>
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		<title>By: Chad D. Walz</title>
		<link>http://www.dgreport.com/index.php/2009/11/09/teaching-to-the-test/#comment-13308</link>
		<dc:creator>Chad D. Walz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 23:27:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dgreport.com/?p=4993#comment-13308</guid>
		<description>The education system works for us not the other way around.  Its the same way with the government.  We need to take both back!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The education system works for us not the other way around.  Its the same way with the government.  We need to take both back!!</p>
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		<title>By: Elaine Johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.dgreport.com/index.php/2009/11/09/teaching-to-the-test/#comment-13303</link>
		<dc:creator>Elaine Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 21:57:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dgreport.com/?p=4993#comment-13303</guid>
		<description>I remember when the extend-response questions you reference first came about, dgmom. 

My son was in about third grade and I was on our school improvement team. That type of question seemed so foreign and counter-intuitive that I asked the teachers on the committee whether &lt;em&gt;anyone,&lt;/em&gt; adult or child, could get it right (whether or not they could accurately perform the computation) without being &quot;taught&quot; how to do it. The answer: No.

If that&#039;s not teaching to the test, I don&#039;t know what is.

As an aside, I think my son got a 100% on computation that year and a 0 on the extended response. Goes to show how much he knew.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember when the extend-response questions you reference first came about, dgmom. </p>
<p>My son was in about third grade and I was on our school improvement team. That type of question seemed so foreign and counter-intuitive that I asked the teachers on the committee whether <em>anyone,</em> adult or child, could get it right (whether or not they could accurately perform the computation) without being &#8220;taught&#8221; how to do it. The answer: No.</p>
<p>If that&#8217;s not teaching to the test, I don&#8217;t know what is.</p>
<p>As an aside, I think my son got a 100% on computation that year and a 0 on the extended response. Goes to show how much he knew.</p>
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		<title>By: dgmom743</title>
		<link>http://www.dgreport.com/index.php/2009/11/09/teaching-to-the-test/#comment-13302</link>
		<dc:creator>dgmom743</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 21:40:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dgreport.com/?p=4993#comment-13302</guid>
		<description>&quot;Further, they force schools into teaching certain subjects, such as writing, in a very formulaic way.&quot;  Amen, sister.

A specific complaint I have relates not only to NCLB but to the state tests as well:  they evaluate not that the child can come up with the right answer, but HOW the child comes up with the answer.  If you have a child who thinks differently, they are considered WRONG. 

This handicaps both teachers and students, in my opinion.  If the question is &quot;what is 1/2 of 50?&quot; why should it matter if the student got the answer by picturing two quarters in her head to come up with 25, or used the &quot;official&quot; methodology?  And where is the freedom of the teacher to come up with innovative teaching techniques to meet the needs of his students?

The tests don&#039;t simply measure if the students can answer, they regiment thinking and teaching as well.  And discourage individuality.  And that does NOT sit well with me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Further, they force schools into teaching certain subjects, such as writing, in a very formulaic way.&#8221;  Amen, sister.</p>
<p>A specific complaint I have relates not only to NCLB but to the state tests as well:  they evaluate not that the child can come up with the right answer, but HOW the child comes up with the answer.  If you have a child who thinks differently, they are considered WRONG. </p>
<p>This handicaps both teachers and students, in my opinion.  If the question is &#8220;what is 1/2 of 50?&#8221; why should it matter if the student got the answer by picturing two quarters in her head to come up with 25, or used the &#8220;official&#8221; methodology?  And where is the freedom of the teacher to come up with innovative teaching techniques to meet the needs of his students?</p>
<p>The tests don&#8217;t simply measure if the students can answer, they regiment thinking and teaching as well.  And discourage individuality.  And that does NOT sit well with me.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Theisen</title>
		<link>http://www.dgreport.com/index.php/2009/11/09/teaching-to-the-test/#comment-13301</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Theisen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:17:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dgreport.com/?p=4993#comment-13301</guid>
		<description>Bob, 

Many teachers nationwide have also complained about NCLB because of the constant assessment testing. I&#039;ve read stories of teachers preparing a month in advance to teach to the test, while they neglect or postpone other lessons. Insanity. 

Biggest problems? 

Parents who accept and sit by idly. 
Teachers who remain silent for fear of their job.
School Boards who beg for Federal funds and acquiesce to all demands. 

When will we have enough? When will we demand more control? 

The answer in my house is to do more work. We don&#039;t depend up on the State. My kids aren&#039;t always appreciative of the extra work we give them; I have hope that someday they will be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob, </p>
<p>Many teachers nationwide have also complained about NCLB because of the constant assessment testing. I&#8217;ve read stories of teachers preparing a month in advance to teach to the test, while they neglect or postpone other lessons. Insanity. </p>
<p>Biggest problems? </p>
<p>Parents who accept and sit by idly.<br />
Teachers who remain silent for fear of their job.<br />
School Boards who beg for Federal funds and acquiesce to all demands. </p>
<p>When will we have enough? When will we demand more control? </p>
<p>The answer in my house is to do more work. We don&#8217;t depend up on the State. My kids aren&#8217;t always appreciative of the extra work we give them; I have hope that someday they will be.</p>
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		<title>By: Sideline Observer</title>
		<link>http://www.dgreport.com/index.php/2009/11/09/teaching-to-the-test/#comment-13298</link>
		<dc:creator>Sideline Observer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 17:43:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dgreport.com/?p=4993#comment-13298</guid>
		<description>&quot;I’d love to hear from those who are more favorably disposed than I am.&quot;  

Don&#039;t hold your breath. In 2014 100% of students are supposed to pass NCLB. The bar&#039;s gotta go into the dirt for that to happen.  Some standard of excellence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I’d love to hear from those who are more favorably disposed than I am.&#8221;  </p>
<p>Don&#8217;t hold your breath. In 2014 100% of students are supposed to pass NCLB. The bar&#8217;s gotta go into the dirt for that to happen.  Some standard of excellence.</p>
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		<title>By: Chad D. Walz</title>
		<link>http://www.dgreport.com/index.php/2009/11/09/teaching-to-the-test/#comment-13297</link>
		<dc:creator>Chad D. Walz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 17:13:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dgreport.com/?p=4993#comment-13297</guid>
		<description>The problem that I see with state and national standards is that the standard changes based on the administration in office.  This seems whacked out to me.  We should get rid of the national and state educational systems, save some tax dollars and let the communities run their own schools.  It worked in the past and it will work again. 

I am a perfect example of how standardized tests do not always tell the whole truth. I was a horrible test taker.  Always was and always will be.  I placed very low on those IL state tests as a kid and only scored aggregate of 19 on my ACT.  Yet I graduated college with a 3.2 GPA.  So I guess the moral of this story is that standardized tests should be a guide to how the general population is fairing, but not the gospel.  Our educational system should not be based solely on these tests.  There are plenty of very smart kids who may not test well but are very good students and achieve high marks in school.  So my concern is that we teach the basics and teach them well.  I believe teaching to the average and then putting the over achievers into gifted classes and the lower achieving students into a tutorial program.  That has always worked.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem that I see with state and national standards is that the standard changes based on the administration in office.  This seems whacked out to me.  We should get rid of the national and state educational systems, save some tax dollars and let the communities run their own schools.  It worked in the past and it will work again. </p>
<p>I am a perfect example of how standardized tests do not always tell the whole truth. I was a horrible test taker.  Always was and always will be.  I placed very low on those IL state tests as a kid and only scored aggregate of 19 on my ACT.  Yet I graduated college with a 3.2 GPA.  So I guess the moral of this story is that standardized tests should be a guide to how the general population is fairing, but not the gospel.  Our educational system should not be based solely on these tests.  There are plenty of very smart kids who may not test well but are very good students and achieve high marks in school.  So my concern is that we teach the basics and teach them well.  I believe teaching to the average and then putting the over achievers into gifted classes and the lower achieving students into a tutorial program.  That has always worked.</p>
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		<title>By: Elaine Johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.dgreport.com/index.php/2009/11/09/teaching-to-the-test/#comment-13296</link>
		<dc:creator>Elaine Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 17:01:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dgreport.com/?p=4993#comment-13296</guid>
		<description>Good questions, Bob.

My point is not that state standards aren&#039;t useful, but that they are limited and maybe even mediocre, particularly when the entire &quot;meets&quot; and &quot;exceeds&quot; categories are taken into account.  

Further, they force schools into teaching certain subjects, such as writing,  in a very formulaic way. With all the emphasis that is put on making AYP and meeting standards, there appears to be less time for classroom approaches or subjects that don&#039;t contribute to this goal.

Finally,  standards apparently are lowered as necessary to enable states to achieve AYP -- indicating that educational goals set in Springfield or Washington may be unfortunately subject to politics.

Again, just my opinion as a parent who has been observing the test, and it&#039;s impact on local education, since it was instituted 10 years ago. 

But I&#039;m not a professional educator and I may be missing something. I&#039;d love to hear from those who are more favorably disposed than I am.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good questions, Bob.</p>
<p>My point is not that state standards aren&#8217;t useful, but that they are limited and maybe even mediocre, particularly when the entire &#8220;meets&#8221; and &#8220;exceeds&#8221; categories are taken into account.  </p>
<p>Further, they force schools into teaching certain subjects, such as writing,  in a very formulaic way. With all the emphasis that is put on making AYP and meeting standards, there appears to be less time for classroom approaches or subjects that don&#8217;t contribute to this goal.</p>
<p>Finally,  standards apparently are lowered as necessary to enable states to achieve AYP &#8212; indicating that educational goals set in Springfield or Washington may be unfortunately subject to politics.</p>
<p>Again, just my opinion as a parent who has been observing the test, and it&#8217;s impact on local education, since it was instituted 10 years ago. </p>
<p>But I&#8217;m not a professional educator and I may be missing something. I&#8217;d love to hear from those who are more favorably disposed than I am.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob LeMay</title>
		<link>http://www.dgreport.com/index.php/2009/11/09/teaching-to-the-test/#comment-13295</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob LeMay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 14:54:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dgreport.com/?p=4993#comment-13295</guid>
		<description>Elaine, I must admit that when I see a statement like &quot;...such [state or national] standards are unlikely to represent the goals and interests of our community&quot;, it makes me wonder: How different are our local educational standards from state and national standards?  

Do we feel that our kids should read a little bit worse than the national standard?  Is it okay for our kids to only master some of the math that the state requires?  What EXACTLY about the state or national standards is not appropriate for our kids?  Are those standards so extreme?

While I certainly don&#039;t like the idea of &quot;teaching to the test&quot;, I would hope that those tests represent some norm of educational achievement that a balanced, normal curriculum should be able to meet sufficiently for all students.  I can&#039;t imagine that the educators who developed the state and national tests were aiming at the top 10% of students with the tests.

Perhaps the problem is the dilution of basic education?  Lack of discipline?  A need to teach to the level of the lowest students, which prevents the rest of the class from progressing as quickly as they could, instead of separating out some students for remedial work?  

I must admit that I don&#039;t know.  While I read the papers (and this blog) and have attended DG 58 and DG 99 school board meetings in the past, my sons attended parochial schools, so I don&#039;t have a personal &quot;parent&quot; view of what the local public schools are doing right and wrong.

Anyone want to enlighten me?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elaine, I must admit that when I see a statement like &#8220;&#8230;such [state or national] standards are unlikely to represent the goals and interests of our community&#8221;, it makes me wonder: How different are our local educational standards from state and national standards?  </p>
<p>Do we feel that our kids should read a little bit worse than the national standard?  Is it okay for our kids to only master some of the math that the state requires?  What EXACTLY about the state or national standards is not appropriate for our kids?  Are those standards so extreme?</p>
<p>While I certainly don&#8217;t like the idea of &#8220;teaching to the test&#8221;, I would hope that those tests represent some norm of educational achievement that a balanced, normal curriculum should be able to meet sufficiently for all students.  I can&#8217;t imagine that the educators who developed the state and national tests were aiming at the top 10% of students with the tests.</p>
<p>Perhaps the problem is the dilution of basic education?  Lack of discipline?  A need to teach to the level of the lowest students, which prevents the rest of the class from progressing as quickly as they could, instead of separating out some students for remedial work?  </p>
<p>I must admit that I don&#8217;t know.  While I read the papers (and this blog) and have attended DG 58 and DG 99 school board meetings in the past, my sons attended parochial schools, so I don&#8217;t have a personal &#8220;parent&#8221; view of what the local public schools are doing right and wrong.</p>
<p>Anyone want to enlighten me?</p>
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