Members of several PTAs plan a silent candlelight demonstration in advance of the D58 school board meeting on Monday, Dec. 14, at Indian Trail Elementary School, 6235 Stonewall Ave. Candles will be distributed beginning at 6 p.m. with the demonstration following at 6:30 p.m.
“All residents who believe that board members need to ensure that our kids are safe at school and want members to regain their focus on educational issues are encouraged to join the demonstration,” according to a statement released by Downers Grove Cares and the Whittier Elementary School PTA.
Whittier parents Jill Browning and Donna Giuliano are organizing the demonstration in response to board member Scott O’Connell’s latest attempt to block the sale of $10 million in life safety bonds, which the district expected to issue Nov. 23. Proceeds from the bonds had been earmarked for roof repairs at four schools and other life safety projects.
New roofs at Indian Trail and O’Neill Middle School, which were installed this summer, were funded out of $2 million in reserve funds which the district planned to replenish after the bond sale. A playground at Whittier was also resurfaced with the funds.
“The well-being of our Board of Education has a vital impact on the strength of our schools and community,” according to the statement released by Downers Grove Cares. “Residents are encouraged to join the demonstration and show their support for the sale of life safety bonds so the board can return their focus to the education of our children.”
Downers Grove Cares was formed in advance of the 2009 school board election to advocate for strong schools and a strong community. The group endorsed candidates and encouraged residents to vote in the April 7 election and also pledged to provide “an ongoing platform for discussion about the future of our community.”
I’m not sure if a candlelight vigil is the best idea. Perhaps if Mr. O’Connell got a lot of snail mail and e-mail telling him to knock it off and let the bond sale go through, he might start to realize that his popularity is as low as George W. Bush’s, and that he should actually do what the taxpayers want, and not just spout off, running the District’s legal bills.
My child’s school was supposed to have its roof replaced last summer. Thanks to Mr. O’Connell, it’s scheduled for the summer of 2010. My concern is that if we have a winter like the last two, there could be real problems, including water infiltration.
The last thing we need is a student, teacher, parent, or other staff memeber getting bonked on the head by soggy ceiling tiles.
A candle light vigil? Really…Really??
Thank you for posting this information, Elaine.
We are planning a candlelight DEMONSTRATION to ensure that all of our kids are safe while at school and also to urge board members to regain their focus on educational issues. We hope that other concerned citizens will join us, in addition to writing to board members about their concerns.
We hope that this demonstration will prevent the need for any future candlelight VIGILS–which will take place if anyone is harmed due to the unstable physical environment present in many of our schools.
Thank you!
I truly believe that if there were real and eminent safety issues at our schools they would be fixed regardless of a bond issuance. If these schools that need roofs are that bad then have the village condemn the schools. Then we have to fix the roofs. I suspect that is not the case.
Maybe we should just put “bucket or metal pot to catch raindrops from hole in roof” on our School Supply Lists. At least until our schools have reached the condemnation stage.
As a D58 parent and taxpayer, I would support a referendum over life safety bonds because that will cost less. In the meantime, I would be happy to donate a bucket.
Does anyone know what a bond is? Its kind of like a credit card for government entities. How much credit card debt is your household comfortable taking on? I just want people to think about that. The easy way out is saying that the poor kids and teachers are going to get killed in a building collapse. The hard thing to do is prioritize roof replacement based on the money in the budget. This is money we don’t have that the board is going to spend. This is going to cost us interest. I am NOT…NOT…saying these roofs shouldnt be replaced just maybe we should pay CASH for them. So you can save your sarcastic comments, this is a serious issue.
Didn’t the district try for a referendum not but two years ago? Didn’t it get voted down?
Here’s me not being sarcastic: above and beyond any ethical, moral or emotional duties some of us may feel we have to educate not only our own children but ALL our children, money for schools makes economic sense. I’m speaking of home values.
Seriously, suggesting the roofs aren’t a priority because they’re not bad enough to be condemned? Is THAT the kind of school system you want? Believe me, I ABSOLUTELY take this seriously. But I also want to be polite. That’s why I chose a sarcastic joke.
I’m amazed that the laws of supply and demand and paying for quality seem to evaporate in some people’s minds when it comes to schools. You think teachers are paid too much? Do you go for the CHEAPEST lawyer or the CHEAPEST electrician? If you want good teachers, you have to PAY FOR THEM.
Now, we need roofs for our schools. WE NEED TO PAY FOR THEM. People voted down the referendum. How long should the school district keep trying? How many years? How many referendums?
Chad, I am not sure I know of any school that pays cash to have a roof fixed, or that would pay cash to anything repair related. Something as large as a roof would be proper for a bond repair. Beyond that, Downers Grove Bonds typically have a very high credit rating, thus they are easy to sell. Sure they might cost the district more money in the short term, but for this cost of a project, bonding only seems like the normal path to take.
I hope this will help. This constant blocking of bond issuance is just ridiculous. I don’t know Scott personally but I take it he has no children at this school? I’m sure the district isn’t at the point of the roof(s) being unsafe, but just let the repairs happen. If you have a good bond issuer, a good FA and a responsible district, this isn’t that hard to figure out.
Why wouldn’t they put money in the budget for the roofs? Just wondering. That is what I meant by using cash. If a referendum got voted down then doesn’t that mean that the majority of the D58 tax payers didn’t want to do it? I just can’t believe that we aren’t planning for capital expenditures like roofs? Why weren’t these planned for years ago? Now we have to use bonds. Poor planning in my estimation.
Dgmom743,
Please don’t get me started on what a teach should make. Don’t you think anyone in any job thinks they should be paid more…of course.
I love our teachers and they do a great job, but they get paid very fairly compared to their peers in the state. I looked up the numbers on this a year ago and our teacher salaries are approximately 85% higher than any other district in the state. Not to mentions teacher pensions are untouchable by market forces. Meaning you still retire with the same benefits regardless of what the economy is doing. Please don’t go there. All you have to do is go to Champion.net to find these salaries.
AGAIN, OUR TEACHERS ARE SOME OF THE BEST IN THE COUNTRY AND I SUPPORT THEM 100%.
This post was about roofs though…
While I am not a Downers Grove resident – this situation is typical throughout the schools in Dupage County.
The school boards have continued to mismanage the taxpayer money for years. The school boards all operate the same – they forget that they are elected officials – and that they have an obligation to not only serve the administrators and school staff – but also the taxpayer –
They always use the “It’s for the good of the children” – While in many instances it has nothing to do with the children – Certainly our school boards should be maintaining our schools to be sure that they are safe for our children. The school districts know exactly what money they have to work with each year (Forget money from the State of Illinois – that is another topic of mismanagement of taxpayer money) -
The money to maintain our buildings should be coming out of the taxpayer money that they receive yearly – Unfortunatly the money is going to pay out hefty salaries and benefits to many of the employees ( By the way – More money does not equate better education – Just look at the children in Catholic Grammer schools – they are just as educated and prepared for the curriculum as the children from public schools are when they get to our Highschools – those teachers in the catholic schools are making quite a bit less money than those teaching in the public schools.
Throwing money at a money problem does not solve the issue – Our schools don’t have a funding problem they have a spending problem.
80% of our taxpayer dollars are going to salaries and benefits – of course there is no money left to maintain our buildings – The burden of these salaries and benefits on the taxpayer will be unsustainable – Yes a teacher should make a living wage – but it has gotten out of control.
The borrowing will never stop and the taxpyer will be bled dry until the real issue is addressed – and that is reigning in some of the money going to salaries and benefits.
To hold a candlelight vigil or ceremony for an issue like this is really over the top -
The PTA’s and some of these groups that are supposed to be representing the children – have become an extension of our school boards and the unions. They are pushing through political agendas instead of really serving our children.
The PTA’s have plenty of opportunities to get involved for the benefit of the children (How about getting involved and holding teachers and administrators responsible when they are not doing what they should for our children) –
This all stems from a lack of accountability and it is running rampant in most of our government entities today.
This appears to be an attack against the schoolboard member who is trying to hold this board to some fiscal accountability – and doesn’t seem to have much to do about anything else – The school board had to have known for a long time that those roofs were going to need repair and should have budgeted accordingly with the money they had- They should be able to make some cuts (that don’t affect the children) – ie…cut some adminstrative staff, cut out any food that is being served for meetings, cut out company car allowances, and give a little less of a raise (like the rest of the people working in the private sector) – and I’d bet they would find enough money to get done what is needed to get done and not drain the taxpayer dry in the process.
First, now is a good time to borrow, because interest rates are so low thanks to the Fed. I keep hearing on CNBC that the Fed will probably start raising rates next summer. The longer the Board is stalled in issuing bonds, the greater the potential is for having to sell then at a higher interest rate.
Second, as for buckets in the classroom, don’t laugh. I attended a school in the western suburbs that had a leaky roof, and most classrooms had one or two buckets. The problem was that the school, which was built as a single-story building, was pegged to have a second story added. The school board decided to wait and include repairing what remained of the first story roof as a part of the construction project for the addition. So, it was more than a year with buckets, when there was anything stronger than drizzle, or if the snow on the roof started thawing.
Apparently, neither the building inspector nor the fire marshal saw this as a problem.
While I am not a taxpayer in district 58, i do read these comments with some interest. Not all School Districts are run badly as Mary Ann suggests. None of the Bloggers on here have a understanding as to how School Districts are funded. I could help explain but, it would take hours. As to saving money to pay for these roofs as Chad suggests, that would take years and during the time of “saving” severly limit moniesthat would be available for everyday maintenance. There are seperate levies for the Education fund (salaries,etc.) and building and maintenance funds. What was the referendum for a few years ago. Does 58 levy for life safety? I assume that the life safety bonds are serviced from life safety levy or building levy which would pay a monthly service and still allow for money for routine maintenance without raising the levy, therefore no tax increase. The only down side is taking on new debt or possibly extending old debt ( not sure of dist 58 situation), either way, fiscally sound. It’s my understanding that 58 runs with a surplus and has fund balances. So, why not issue bonds and have a surplus available when the money used to service the debt is available and does not require a tax increase?
Dan,
Thanks for your insight, it is much appreciated. I still don’t like the district taking on debt but I understand the principal behind it now!
I think this whole situation we are in is a joke.
How is it Oconnell’s fault that our board members did NOT plan for new roofs years ago?
How is it Oconnell’s fault that our Board members have to use “life safety” as an issue to get normal and customary work done?
HOw is itOconnell’s fault, that the Board, once again, has overblown what the financial needs are for these “life safety” issues? Should we all just act like sheep and do whatever the blind men tell us to do? HOW is this mess One Board member’s fault? This district leadership…starting with the president is a joke.
Im not saying that adding debt is always a good thing but, most of the districts around here are in good fiscal shape, can borrow fairly cheaply and not raise taxes and keep a rainy day fund. It would be nice to be 100% debt free but, not likely. I understand that the issue in dist 58 is whether or not it is proper to use life safety bonds for roof repairs. An interesting question but one that I think has already been answered by the courts. Do you know what the members issue is now? If it is he does not agree with using borrowed funds for roof repair I would think that he would just vote no and let the taxpayers decide at the next election if they agree. I have not heard where anyone has shown up at the BOE meetings to voice an opinion that the bonds should not be issued. There seems to be a better way to handle disagreements than threating lawsuits and wasting money on legal fees.
I agree Dan.
Mr. O’Connell’s execution of his duties as a school board member lacks diplomacy big-time.
Once gain Bellocks and Dillard are AWOL in getting state capital grants to their district. Do they even drive west of Rt. 83 ??
Once again, chad and i can have a constructive conversation even if we have differing opinions. Thanks chad.
As to “notsaying” I understand your right to remain anonymous but, if you think the president is a “joke” run for office, get on the BOE, change things you want changed, calling someone a joke anonymously is counter-productive. Your opinion and ideas maybe right, share them with pride.
I would also like to say something to Chad.
I think we come from different points of view, and I think we both can be passionate. But I am GLAD of it, because I think you honestly want the best for our town, our country and our future, and we need people with differing opinions yet the same ultimate goal to discuss possible solutions.
I appreciate that you don’t issue sneering blanket indictments against an elected official.
Chad,
I’ve spiked a reader’s comment questioning your statement that our teacher salaries are higher than 85 percent of Illinois districts because it went over the line. However, I’d invite you to address the question if you wish.
The Teachers and all Union Staff Members should give back part or all of the gaurenteed raises so the school can fix the roofs.
Look at the Great Leadership we have with our Village Council. Look at what they have done regarding the budget short falls expected in DG next year. They have made massive cuts…….even suspending Heritage Fest. Even though that was not popular among one Council member who wanted to throw a party.
What has the school cut?? Nothing . Just like they always do…..nothing but want more money.
Keep up the good work Scott. The Board Members are the sheep that are being led by the blind administration and their lawyers.
(Not that my opinion matter; just an outside observer/reader/ crazy blogger as some have labeled my post here) this has to be one of the best threads on DGREPORT.COM, so far. Now that I am finish posting my “Atta Boy” for readers and bloggers, keep it up DGREPORT.COM.
Why can’t DG58 budget the repair of roofs long time ago? That is a very good question. DG58 has asked referendum in 2000, and the resident passed it. In late 2006, DG58 established Financial Advisory Committee to recommend another referendum to cover their incompetence. However, this time they got more than bargained for. Thus, DG58 used scare tactics or threat of some kind to answer questions. For instance, if DG residents did not approve the referendum to increase the income for DG58, they would be forced to cut some programs.
It appeared that the window of their plan being rejected by the Financial Advisory Committee members was very small if such window existed, all the presentations were guided to the door said, “Yes, let’s work together to pass this referendum.” Is it what we call “Rigged?” What kind of decision could it be if you were only given a wrong data or information? Instead of the Committee members deciding based on the truthful, an honest data, and answers, DG58 had treated Committee members with disrespect, and used scare tactics to force their agenda on committee members.
Just because the way Scott asks questions, or tries to get information from the District, it will not make Scott a bad Board member. Why can’t the District give him what he needs to help the District? Why does District make it so hard for Board members to get necessary information? It makes me suspicious.
Look at the past ten years how DG58 handled the fund, for instance, Puffer merger. Didn’t DG58 gain over four million dollars from it? It is obvious that they have ignored essential matters needed to be taken care of. I am sure the readers recall Mark Thoman wrote; the previous Business Administrator received 50% pay increase within how many years?
It is the trend in this country to cut employee’s benefit when things go wrong. In my opinion, the cut should start from the top first before even considering cutting the programs or letting special ED teachers go, or whatever they do to cover up their inability. They should take their responsibilities of misjudging, making wrong decisions, and leading the residents to the current situation. After such measure has been taken, only then the residents may show their support.
One of many questions being asked at the Financial Advisory Committee meeting; “Does DG58 know exactly what the core cause of the financial short fall is? If Dg58 does not know, then it will repeat itself within a few years from now as we have been there in 2000.” If we do not know the true problem, we will be attacking the effect only. Additionally, if we kept doing the same thing, we’ll end up with the same result. Thus if we want to change the result, we must change the way we do things. Scott is trying for the District to do things differently, therefore the end results will not be a status quo.
dgmom743,
I also appreciate that we have differing opinions on some issues, but as you pointed out that is what make’s Downers Grove and our country such a great place to live. We can all voice our opine with out fear of retribution.
Although I do take itty bitty jabs at elected officials from time to time!
Here is a fun article to ponder while I dig up my source on our teachers salaries compared to the rest of the state.
http://www.thechampion.org/article.asp?id=322
I dont know about D58 but here is some info on D99 teachers.
The teaching staff is 412 teachers, who have taught for an average of 14 years.[2] Over 75% of teachers hold a master’s degree or higher, and 61.8% are female. The average salary for the equivalent of a full-time teacher is $81,358, over $20,000 above than the state average, and $114,575 for an administrator, over $10,000 above the state average. The Student-to-teacher ratio is 20.7 to 1, and the student to administrator ratio is 167.4 to one.[1]
From what I remember the 85% number was for out D99 teachers. My appologies to the D58 teachers. I have a report in the works that is interesting though.
Please can we not throw around unsubstantiated statistics. What are the numbers supporting this 85% number and what is their PUBLISHED and verifiable source?
The D58 numbers look like this:
D58 teachers ave salary is: $69,700
IL state average salary is: $61,400
Only a difference of $8,300
Still nice though considering the 15 weeks off, pension and healthcare. Just sayin…
Again, I love our teachers. Just want to send a shout out to Mrs. Patel from Kingsley School, the best Kindergarten teacher ever…Thanks for all you do for our little ones!
Elaine, you wrote, “Chad, I’ve spiked a reader’s comment questioning your statement that “our teacher salaries are higher than 85 percent of Illinois districts”
Chad did not write that and I did not quote that or question it. Chad wrote, “our teacher salaries are approximately 85% higher than any other district in the state.”
“Higher than 85%” is not the same as “85% higher than.” They do not mean the same thing. They are not interchangeable.
The statement, Dec 9, 2009 at 1:47 pm, is absurd and utterly false. “I looked up the numbers on this a year ago and our teacher salaries are approximately 85% higher than any other district in the state.”
This is not true. This is not even possible. We are not the highest-paying district in the state, let alone 85% higher than the second highest paying. I think it was polite for me to suggest it might be a mistake, a poor choice of words, or a joke, because otherwise it is complete idiocy.
“I looked up the numbers on this a year ago and our teacher salaries are approximately 85% higher than any other district in the state.” Chad D. Walz // Dec 9, 2009 at 1:47 pm
John,
I just searched all of my posts on the this subject and the report was lost in the DGtalk forum. If EJ still has access to that info I would love that post. In the meantime I posted some other links to info on teacher salaries.
D58 teachers make 13.5% more than thier peers.
state ave of $61,400
D58 ave $69,700
D99 teachers make 34% more than thier peers.
state ave of $61,000
D99 ave $81,000
So there you go John. Those are as current of numbers as I could find.
I am not a math wiz, your a smart guy, I am sure you could figure out the percentages on your own.
Does anyone else find the candlelight vigil over the top?
Isn’t that what we do after terrorists attack or when a child is missing?
I’m sure these folks are sincere but where are they at Board meetings? Residents are usually outnumbered by staff/union members.
A lot has gone on over the years to get us to this impasse and none of the Board’s antics should be condoned. I’d just ask that a fraction of effort that goes into organizing such an event be directed toward TRULY informing oneself by attending meetings, reading Financial committee advice,etc. You are handing thousands of dollars each year,via your tax bill, to this District to invest wisely. Question where it goes and why there is never,ever enough.
What about those people at the top, in the administration, that Transplant was talking about?
I don’t know if that’s valid or not. Do we have any info on those positions?
If there is money getting wasted, I don’t think it’s teachers and I don’t think it’s on facilities (have you seen Longfellow, and how the computer servers are housed, for example?) I don’t think they’re wasting paper and staples.
But the bigger fish? Are their salaries justified? Is there fat to be cut in positions with a less direct connection to our children and the things they actually use? I’m willing to consider supporting THOSE cuts.
Businessman: Oh, you were thinking I could actually read? Big oops.
dgmom: It’s a fair question. I’ll see if I can pull together some figures for tomorrow.
Transplant:
I was a co-chair of the original ad hoc Financial Advisory Committee in 2006. You’re right, the board was intent on backing up the administration’s assertion of the need for a 31 cent tax increase. Check out the Nov ‘06 board minutes – I asked if the board had any questions – there were none. I went on to say that a number of us on the committee believed that the tax proposed by the administration was far more than warranted (that comment didn’t make it into the minutes). The only reason this bears repeating is that the current board, like the previous one – seems to be taking a hands-off approach when it comes to the details. Maybe that just reflects the fact that all of the board is new except for the president. However, I fear that this board may avoid deep involvement in some of the important budget and curriculum matters if they believe that doing so means they are micro-managing.
Your point that previous boards should have been saving for these capital expenditures sounds reasonable on its face. One would think that accumulating the funds over time to replace the roofs without borrowing would be ideal. However, there are several factors which act to sabotage this kind of sensible planning. The first barrier is the Illinois School Code, which mandates a limit on accumulating cash in an Operations and Maintenance fund (Section 17-5.1, Illinois School Code): “No tax for operations and maintenance purposes … as provided in Section 17-5 shall be levied at a rate sufficient to accumulate funds nor shall funds for such purposes be accumulated as authorized in said sections until the board of education or school board has by resolution ordered the submission of the proposition of accumulating funds for such purpose to the electors of the district at a regular scheduled election and the proposition has been approved by a majority of the electors voting thereon.” This effectively requires taxpayer approval for the school district to build savings for future roof replacement. So, ironically, the State allows districts to borrow and pass on interest costs to the taxpayers under the Life-Safety provisions without referendum, but requires a referendum to allow the school district to accumulate savings for the same purpose. Even if this referendum passed, one can predict the complaint of taxpayers as the reserves accumulated that the district is flush with cash, and therefore should reduce its next tax levy. “Spend the funds down, don’t take our money and sit on it” would be the plaint.
You mention Scott’s frustrations with developing more information. Unfortunately, IMHO, Scott’s requests appear to the administration to be witch-hunting expeditions. He’s not asking the right questions, and his approach is alienating. Although I, personally, may have suspected the last superintendent of providing self-serving or misleading information, I find the current superintendent to be an honest and upright individual. Scott hasn’t taken advantage of the change in the board or administration to build any bridges, and his tactics have have not resulted in anything positive related to the roof issue. He hasn’t proposed an alternate means of funding the roofs except to say that the money for roofs can be found in the budget, which he claims is too high.
I’ve been on the standing Financial Advisory Committee since it was established two years now, and we’ve done our best to figure out the most cost-effective manner of financing the roof replacement. I’m very impressed with the individuals I serve with – a wide range of financial specialties is represented, which allows for good, in-depth discussions. No need to ‘get back to you later’, since we have most of the needed expertise in the room – benefits & insurance, bond pricing, accounting, budgeting, governmental finance, and financial modeling, just to name some of the areas.
The roof financing issue occupied most of our time. Our informal consensus was that any kind of tax referendum would fail, since the board and administration damaged their credibility with the excessive levy put on the ballot three years ago. However, virtually no outside observers attend the FAC meetings, so we haven’t heard many constituent voices on this matter at all. After much discussion and input from the committee members and consultants, we decided that issuing bonds was the most cost-efficient and prudent course of action.
A few of the other items which the FAC has addressed include the reassessment of the investment policy because of the concentration of CDs well in excess of FDIC insurance, and the revision of some of the financial reports for the board. The investment summary, for example, is a much better presentation of the district’s position, showing comparisons with the previous year, etc.
One initiative I’ve been encouragin is to expand the financial reporting to include educational programs and administrative expenses. If you’ve attended the financial workshops and board meetings and have looked through the budget and the financial reports and still aren’t sure where the money’s going, you can bet that the board doesn’t either. The board isn’t given much more financial information than you have access to.
If you are interested in greater disclosure on these matters, I would urge you to attend board and FAC meetings and ask for better financial reporting. This is important because the value of the district’s tax base is eroding, and the next measurement of the CPI may cause the district’s tax revenue to decline appreciably. We will need good financial information to understand our options.
Chad, the big piece of the compensation bundle is the pension – imagine early retirement at age 50 with half pay. We’re getting clubbed with those expenses, and there’s more to come. We don’t see it at our district, since it’s a State expense.
However, I’m not sure you’re making your case with your salary comparison. How do you think the local cost of living compares with the ‘State average’. Or the local housing and gasoline prices, or local sales taxes? If these costs are more than 15% higher in DG than the ‘State average’, does that mean that the District 58 teachers are underpaid compared to their ‘peers’?
Apples to apples, dude. Speaking of apples, do you think that the prices at our local grocer are less than 15% higher than the state average?
Remember Twain’s remark – there are lies, damned lies and statistics. Careful with the numbers, there’s a bunch of quants reading this blog.
Mr. Cook,
I understand what you are saying and appreciate your thoughtful insight.
The only comment I have is that the private sector doesn’t care where you live, they pay you the same if you live in Downers Grove or if you live in Pingree Grove. As I stated in a previous post everyone thinks they should be compensated higher than they are, that is human nature.
The problem that I have with this demonstration is that its personal. O’Connell lives in the Whittier School boundary. Many of these parents know O’Connell personally or are neighbors with him. I don’t blame them for being upset, but I do not condone a vigil for a bond issuance. I would reserve the candle light vigils for victims of gun violence. J
Chad-
Can you list your source for those salaries? I would like to see where DG stacks up against other teachers in comparable areas. The state wide average could mean a lot of things. Did it include private schools? CPS? Downstate schools with little funding?
I think it’s more fair to compare DG teachers with other teachers in DuPage, but not necessarily state wide. If residents of this community want the positive impacts of highly respected school district (less crime, higher property value, etc.) they should be willing to pay a bit more for it. The positives here certainly out weight the negatives.
However, if the DG teachers are being paid more on average than the other highly accomplished teachers of DuPage (Hinsdale, Naperville, Wheaton or Glen Ellyn) teachers, it certainly is a cause for concern.
Once you start filtering data you can bias towards the answer you’re looking for.
http://www.city-data.com has raw data on most district salaries.
http://www.championnews.net/salaries.php lists individual teacher and administrator salaries
http://www.aft.org/salary/2009/PubEmpsCompSurvey09.pdf is the latest compensation survey published by the AFT.
There’s many more sources. Google “Illinois teacher salary comparisons by district” and you get about 53,000 hits.
If you are to compare apples to apples you need to weigh a variety of factors other than who makes what. Although our school districts may be in the 85th state percentile for average pay (and I do not know that for a fact), I can come up with comparisons showing they are woefully underpaid or overpaid, take your pick.
Do they accomplish what residents/parents/taxpayers ask of them, and are they fairly compensated for that effort and result? That seems a pertinent filter to me.
These are School Lobbiest over reacting with a candle vigil. Come on people. There are other ways to get your point across then a candle vigil. Whats next calling all the local news channels, hunger strickes or blocking Scotts drive way??
All info was gathered from D58 and D99 websites. Under district report card.
I am a Kingsley parent. Two times in less than a week, I have encountered leaking roofs in different areas of the school. Today’s leak was running next to a ceiling light. Just what a parent wants to see – water leaking next to an electrical current. Is this safe for our children, or do we have to wait for something serious to happen? I have pictures for anyone that wants them.
Maybe alongside the candles large signs with the pictures of the conditions of the roofs (rooves?), are needed in order to make sure the purpose is loud and clear.
So what happened? Anyone have video?
In my humble opinion, Chad, for whatever it’s worth, you missed a GREAT school board meeting. Unfortunately, I had to leave before the end of it, but I was there for 2 hours and it felt like about 1/2 hr… no kidding – I enjoyed it a lot. Grants’ recipients gave their presentations and many came forward to discuss their feelings on the life safety bond issue – myself included. Good meeting.. but hey that’s just me…
Chad,
One of the big issues I have with statistics is that you can pick or choose which statistic to post. If you say that District 58 is higher paid because of the average salary, you are not looking at the whole picture.
What is the average experience at the school??? If the distict is a good place to work, and has a large percentage of their teachers with Master ++++ degrees, then the teachers will get paid more as they are farther to the lower right of the salary scale. (the farther you go to the lower right, the higher the pay)
If the neighboring district does not retain its teachers, or simply retired a lot of older teachers, and has a lot of young ones, or they do not have as many masters degrees, then they are not as high on the teachers pay scale chart. Thus, these two schools districts might have identical pay scales, but one could be 10% higher then the next.
There have been other people on here that compare stats and show charts and so forth, but again are comparing apples to oranges by picking average salaries and so forth. Charts look nice but do they really show the whole picture, or just what the author wants to point out??
If you want a true measure of salary structure, find out what a teacher in their 5th year with their Masters +15 makes, and compare identical.
So last night we decide to “get involved” by having a candlelight vigil and not “bitch” but we still get critisized by HOW we did it? What do you want!!! I was there, you weren’t Chad, don’t critisize the way in which I want to show my concern for my community. We’re all on the same side remember?
Dilbert,
Just remember your statement when the teachers ask for thier new contract. The union will put its numbers out there to.
Sparta,
Good for you, thanks for getting involved!
“If you want a true measure of salary structure, find out what a teacher in their 5th year with their Masters +15 makes, and compare identical.”
When teachers and administration go through contract negotiations, I am sure that they do not pick stats out of a hat. The union will find 10 similar school districts that make more and use them as comparisons. The admin side will look at 10 districts that make less and use them as comparisons.
What they need to do is use contract numbers to compare. Not an average of the entire school system. You put out a vague figure, and I think it is important for other people who read this that are not as schooled in contracts that there are many reasons why your figure can be misleading.
Dilbert,
Either way…people want to be paid more no matter how good they are at thier job, where they live or what they do. That is human nature. I would love to just get paid for what I do. LOL Great debate though…really not jokin.
“I would love to just get paid for what I do.”
Amen, Brother Chad, amen!