Tonight Mayor Sandack broached the topic of putting three advisory referendum questions on the November ballot. November is an election that has no local offices involved. Although he offered up topics, the questions are expected to be finalized after council discussion.
The three topics after the break:
- Pension reform. “Shall the Illinois General Assembly and the Governor take immediate steps to implement meaningful pension reform which will relieve the unsustainable burden on local taxpayers?” Barrington
and Lake Forest have already put advisory referenda on the ballots. Every taxpayer in the state knows by now the unfunded pension burdens the state has wrought by recklessly pillaging and then underfunding the public employee retirement accounts. - Term limits for local office. “Shall the Village of Downers Grove place the following term limits on municipal offices?
- Mayoral term limited to two (2) consecutive four (4) year terms.- Six Village Commissioners limited to three (3) consecutive four (4) year terms each.”
- Consolidating layers of government. “Shall the Illinois General Assembly and the Governor take immediate steps to review the services being provided by townships and special districts and consider consolidation of these services with other units of local government in an effort to reduce or eliminate unnecessary levels of local government?” Illinois is #1 in number of government units, with a staggering multiplicity of taxing bodies.
QUESTION: How many government units do we have in Illinois?
Sandack will be looking for a First Reading (workshop) next week. Council has the ability to add advisory referendum questions as an easy way to gauge the pulse of the community on a topic. Advisory referendum are , as the word implies, advisory and not binding.
What do you, gentle reader, think? Good items? Do you have any you’d like to see as a referendum question?
ANSWER to the question: 8,472
Political theatre!
I like it. An advisory referendum is a starting point. I would vote yes on all three. Pension reform is the big one, both in impact and difficulty. News articles, editorials and blogs have raised the awareness. A referendum could provide the data that political leaders need to build wider political support in the state and move forward on making these changes. And at the least, a vote on a ballot would be more satisfying than a comment on a blog or a response to a poll.
Its called Democracy John. Something most Dems know little about!
60 ILCS 1/25-5 covers the requirements for dissolution of township government within a county. 10% of registered voters (548,771 as of Feb 2, 2010) of each Township means a minimum 55,000 petition signatures would need to be collected within a 90 day period. The County would pose the referendum question, and voters would have to pass the referendum in at 7 of the 9 townships (75%) to be successful.
Illinois has a habit of slanting the field to the status quo. There are also two citizen sponsored referendum initiatives also seeking placement on the November ballot.
The efforts for a Fair Map Amendment to curtail gerrymandering, face a stiff uphill climb. The Putback Amendment is an even more ambitious set of structural changes addressing legislative abuse problems including gerrymandering and several other items, is also currently seeking signatures.
These would both be voter referendums with binding consequences.
I find it strange that we just came thru an election where there we no Village Offices on the ballot and our dear Mayor did not place anything on the ballot.
Now he appears to be trying to block the entire ballot (i.e. statute limits local referendum to a maximum of 3) so residents have no ability to ask any questions.
Now he chooses to put these three items on the ballot.
Where was the Mayor’s concern when he appointed Steven Daniels to his 4th 6 year term on the Library Board? Mr. Daniels has done an excellent job on the library board and no one should take that away. However, do we have no other residents who want to give to the community?
Now we move to Township Government. Clearly this is a matter which the Mayor has blogged and twittered and Facebooked and who knows what else. Why is he so concerned about Township Government? Recently he has supported a candidate for the partisan position of Republican Candidate for County Board Chairman, earlier this week Ron supported a potential law in Springfield to eleminate the DuPage Water Commission and have the County take over. Now he wants a referendum to take over Township government.
Chad this does not look like democracy but rather a complete take over.
Ron, we residents would really like to see you focus on DG business. Work together and come up with a way to bring Heritage Fest back. So many charities have been devastated by your “midnight” cancellation of the Fest. This was their biggest fundraiser and you cancelled it for $20k.
With all due respect please focus on Village matters and see if you can’t bring DG back from the edge of the abyss.
How about fold up some local governments like the Sanitary District back into the Village? Term limits they can do tomorrow, pensions state has to solve. Townships sounds like Mayor Sandack has a fixation or a grudge he can’t get over. What’s the point?
Referendum,
It’s obvious that something personal belies your post.
First, what does it matter that these issues weren’t put on the previous ballot? This is the here and now. Do you live your life refusing to take action today on matters you didn’t think of last year?
You’re complaining that the Mayor re-appointed somebody who had served for a ridiculous amount of time; yet, you then bash him for suggesting a referendum that proposes to prevent the same occurrences (at least w/ elected officials – not appointed) of which you are complaining about. It sounds like there is no winning with you.
Why would a Mayor be concerned with Township government? Well, how about a Mayor who is concerned with efficiency? How about a Mayor who is concerned about an extra layer of government (read: taxing body) providing duplicitous services? How about a Mayor who recognizes that this layer of government is archaic, set-up to govern rural, less populated, tracts of land. Now I don’t know what part of DG you live in and maybe there’s a tract that I haven’t yet discovered; but where I’m at, it is hardly rural and sparsely populated.
From my perspective, Townships should be abolished throughout northeast Illinois and I am happy that somebody from DG is taking a stand on this useless and wasteful level of bureaucracy.
Complete take over? Are you writing in code? Getting rid of the Township does not equate to a take over. Although I do not agree with County govt taking over DWC, I certainly do not see it as a take over in the negative sense which you imply. The DWC just blew through a $19 Million surplus because they didn’t want to pass the wholesale rate increases down to us – the consumer. The DWC deserves scrutiny. Certainly the Cronin connection reeks, but that shouldn’t take away from further examining the issue.
Clearly, the 3 issues proposed for an advisory referendum are directly related to DG business. I’d really like for you to explain how they are not. Moreover, putting some local issues on the ballot might drum up enough interest to pull a respectable local voting count. Given the poor showing in the primary and growing voter apathy, a little local incentive to go to the polls looks like a good move.
I can see how an issue that is so near and dear to the community such as suspending Heritage Fest can affect perspective on other pressing issues. HF is important to the charities. For 2010, it appears, those charities will need to adjust the fundraising tactics. For 2010, there are also several people who were laid off by DG who also will need to adjust. Where do you draw the line?
You point to $20K being the difference maker for HF. I might be wrong on this, but isn’t DG running a 7 figure deficit? I don’t know how you balance your books, but when I’m running a deficit, I don’t take on unnecessary future debts. Call me frugal.
You ask the Mayor to bring DG back from the abyss. Have you not been paying attention? We are living in the State of Abyss. No other state (California is a small country) is running a deficit and debt like ours. We are insolvent. Worse, the reality is Illinois is not likely to recover w/o some federal assistance. This means that municipalities are on their own. That said, I want a my community leaders rejecting every unnecessary expense; I want them taking the lead to abolish every unnecessary level of government; and I want them exploring ways that will prevent other gov’t entities from blowing through $19Mil w/o any accountability. We don’t live in a vacuum – all of these issues are important to DG.
Just my midnight musings. Hope it makes sense when I read it at a normal hour and I more so hope it sparks some additional – constructive – blogging.
I appreciate your excite about township politics; but will such nitpicking, might it scare away full-qualified candidates running for the township offices or mayor? My understanding these officials get paid little or no money (I am so thankful they approved the outdoor patio building permit for Hooters years ago, I think it improves the beauty of Downers).
completely. he/she is correct.
Township officials get paid very well and get a fat pension. Look it up and you will be amazad. Way to go Mayor!
I agree with Mike Carter. 2 real names vs. 2 aliases
Referendum —
I am a resident of Downers Grove too and have a different point of view than yours. I was happy to see that our Mayor and Village Council took the step of cutting HF in the face of an unprececented budget crisis. That was taking care of the business of Downers Grove. I actually would have been happy to see it eliminated even if there was no budget crisis, as I have always found it to be a disruptive and somewhat low class event. The prospect of our downtown not being taken over by a bunch of “carnies” this summer is wonderful. I agree with Mike that the charities will find other ways to do fund raising. My perspective is that we do not need to pay $20,000 so that we can have carnies take over the downtown for a weekend in the name of charity.
I still cannot tell what township government contributes to the average citizen in our community that could be eliminated or could be be done cheaper by the County. I have read through the minutes of DG township meetings, and not much is going on that helps me. It looks like they take care of 80 miles of roads not in Downers Grove, they offer human services (youth and senior), they run two cemetaries (???), they provide financial assistance to certain people (including for unemployed or disabled), they take passport applications (thought the Post Office did that), and they kill mosquitos in unincorporated DG. And who can forget the Assessor — we actually elect someone to run this office whose real estate valuation experience can be “zero.” Our current assessor, in office since 1983, received her first valuation credential (State of Illinois Associate Appraiser’s license) in 2002. My experience is that the Assessor’s office does not know the first thing about today’s real estate market. I have property in another state and have seen my valuation (and taxes) fall in 2008 and 2009 based on the market. We all had our real estate valuations (and taxes) go up in DG during the same period when our home market values went down. Nice job DG Township Assessor! I do not know why this position is not part of civil service (where qualified people apply for positions). I recommend that everyone look at the DG Township website and decide if you get anything of value from this layer of government. I don’t. I’m glad our mayor is putting this up for a vote — it is time that we stop accepting our State of Abyss (thanks for coining this one, Mike). DG Township is unlikely to raise questions about its own relevance through a referendum.
T Cawthorne,
How do we know this is your real name?
Who cares?
I agree with some of what Mike Carter says.
I am very interested in what happened to the $3m plus DG received a couple of years ago from the WaterCommission at the same time our water rates were raised 15% for the 1st of 3 years in a row.
What happens to us now that the money which was supposed to be returned to the residents was held and now they are raising the Water Commissions rates which will be passed thru to us.
Do us all a favor and stop with the real names vs. aliases nonsense. Going forward you can call me Jack Smith. Does that sound better?
Focus on the topics not the screen names.
Got to go to work now, I start at 3pm.
Editor’s note: I’m attempting to confirm statements in this post regarding local water bills. Awaiting the village’s response.
Seems to me the sock puppets have an awful lot to say but no guts to stand behind their claims and accusations. You got something to say…then say it to someone’s face. Whether you like me or hate me, agree with me or disagree with me, I tell it to your face rather than hiding like a little coward behind a moniker.
Editor’s note: Choosing anonymity is not an indication of “guts,” Chad. Just saying.
Chad-
You may want to reread the COMMENTARY POLICY for this blog. That applies to us sock puppets and to you.
Respectfully,
Doc
Look at your tax bill. There are four lines for Downers Grove Township and together they account for less than 1.5% of the total tax bill.
So anybody who wants to save money by eliminating redundant government units would better look (to paraphrase Willie Sutton) “where the money is.”
I think much more could be saved by combining the motor pools and other redundant support operations in the park district, the school district, the village, and yes the township too. That doesn’t need a referendum, just political will.
True enough, Doc. While the use of real names is strongly encouraged, commenters on this blog are welcome to remain anonymous if that is their desire.
Doc J,
Yes, charities will get thru. It is just such a loss because the Village could have easily made money on HeritageFest. Couple more sponsors, ask the exempt employees to put a little extra time in, see if you can get some of the union staffers to volunteer, reach out to the local charities to provide some workers. It would have taken very little effort and DG would have a WIN-WIN situation.
This would have allowed the community to have some fun in these most challenging times, raise a few bucks for the Village and let our local charities raise the funds which are needed so much at this time.
The community was not given a chance.
Going back to the point. IMO, this is a clear attempt by Mayor Ron of continuing to control all dialogue in DG. He will not allow anything to go unchallenged if it is against his personal objectives.
Earl, you are correct with your analysis of the quality of candidates who wish to run for VC. The campaigns are so ugly in DG that people choose not to get involved.
Why would anyone with any talent wish to put themselves thru running for office in DG. Either you kiss the ring or you will have to kiss the _ _ _.
Either way they will not allow an independent thought to get elected to the council.
This is why our dear Mayor wants 3 referendum so he can block any potential discourse.
I think Doc was referring to the part about being respectful and address issues not people. So Chad’s post calling people gutless cowards might be a little out of bounds…
Editor’s note: Point taken.
“duplicitous services?” LOL. You mean duplicate services?
Chuck Goudie of ABC/WLS and Bob Shaw of the BGA did a big story about Cook County Townships and the results are fairly damning. Of the three primary functions required of Townships, most do not take care of any roads of note, some provide no or little temporary assistance to the needy, and in Cook County there is a County Assessor that takes care of assessing taxation.
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/iteam&id=7140039
http://www.allacademic.com/meta/p268987_index.html
Township Government: Essential or Expendable? The Case of Illinois and Cook County, written in 2008 by Roosevelt University’s David K. Hamilton does some downstate comparisons before drilling into Cook County. HT to Cliff Grammich on the link.
60 ILCS 1/25-5 (and the IL GA is unlikely to change this) means you’re locked into doing it county by county.
I’ve been thumbing through AFR’s filed with the State and am seeing some interesting numbers, and even though I’m supposedly on haitus, it’s kind of interesting, not exactly what I was expecting to find.
As for term limits, wholeheartedly agree! Have at it council. Put them in tomorrow. Make them retroactive to yesterday. My only suggestion, one term for mayor, two terms for council, then you need to step back and take a breather, but still stay involved helping out.
What I say here I would say to your or anyone’s face. What many say here they wouldn’t have the guts to say to someone’s face. point taken!
Is the colon considered a ‘gut’, or are ‘guts’ strictly relegated to the upper intestines, such as the duodenum? Always wondered..
Yeah Mark. I meant duplicate. That was the Archie Bunker in me shining through. Thanks.
Over the past few weeks I’ve learned that the anonymous post at this and other sites is a hot topic.
I don’t think anyone should be ripped for not using their real name. Sometimes we all can be sensitive to others judging our thoughts, writing skills, etc and are more comfortable with a moniker. Hell, Ben Franklin was the King of Pseudonyms…and history tells us he was a pretty respectable guy.
If you’re more comfortable writing under a pseudonym, then do so. Just make sure you make some good points to get others thinking and talking. Don’t do it to take personal shots or revenge on elected/appointed officials, employees or anyone else. Since most on this blog call DG home, I think it is especially important to treat each other – whether elected or not – with the same dignity and respect with which you’d like to be treated.
Although I don’t think this thread has crossed that line, I wanted to comment because once again the “anonymous” issue has been raised.
Referendum, I agree with you on one thing – why anyone would run for any political office is beyond me. The scrutiny cast upon your every move (tone of voice, facial expression, arrogance), the complex issues involving competing and compelling interests (HF, employee layoffs, budget crisis), the angry citizens who have all of the answers (each of us), and don’t forget the other elected officials who will try to twist, turn and spin your every word for their own political gain (name any one of ‘em).
Politics and campaigns aren’t just ugly in DG….they’re ugly everywhere and they have been since the beginning of civilization.
Silence Dogood!!!
I think we need to streamline all forms of government- post office…Townships….water commissions. The problem with streamlining…the same politicians will take the “new found” money, and give themselves and their union constituents new pension benefits.
DrJ., I too think the Village has done some good deeds in cutting. Do you think they should cut a bus system that wastes money and serves less than 150 DG residents? just wonderin? I obviously think our Bus system is a wasteful barely used service.
Enough with the whole alias thing. I could log in as the “RonS” or “BrianK”, does that make me more valid than my current name? No, it would only imply something else. Blogging by alias is not going anywhere people.
Mike,
The sad thing is they just got ugly the last several years in DG. Back when Betty Cheever was the Mayor we did not see all the negativeness.
When Schnell and Krajewski ran against eachother it was strickly an issues race. They got a little tought the last couple of days but nothing to write home about.
Then came the negativeness. When Barnett ran for Park Board there was a guy in town who absolutely trashed him on the email. I was stunned. Barnett was a good guy trying to make a difference and it went very personal.
Then the next time around along came Barnett’s DG Advocates. What appeared to be a nice group of people turned into an angry mob going after anyone they did not like.
The make up changes depending on which one of them is up for reelection. Steve Daniels is the sitting President, or was for the last few years, and he seems to not like Debbie Boyle so he went after her big time. Kathy Dicola, Megan Schroeder’s sister, has been on the board for some time.
Moving on to the 2007 Mayor’s race it was terrible. So many people were saying such nasty things it was truly sad. There was so much ugliness that Chris Lavioe (SP?) moved out of town. I think he lives somewhere out west now.
In 2009, there was more of the same as the Advocates went after Deb Boyle again. Barnett ran for office so he seems to have settled down a little. The sad thing was in 2005 we had a ton of people running for office, in 2007 it dropped to 7, in 2009 it was 4 people for 3 positions. The mood in the town is don’t get involved unless you have never made a mistake in your life.
As we move forward towards 2011 it does seem that the Mayor and his forces are trying to limit the dialogue across the community.
Simply refer back to Elaine Johnson’s post of a couple of weeks ago. She appears to be under constant attack.
Yes, with these difficult times the life of a public office holder is more challenging. This is across the spectrum. The “Powers” of DG have just taken it too far. It seems we will never get people to run when they can look forward to how Deb Boyle has been treated, or William Waldack, residents and the like.
Let us hope that the Powers realize we all need to work together and make a good community.
If they don’t then let them bear the fruits of their labor as the residents are starting to wake up. They don’t like what they see.
Who would vote against these questions? This is simply the Mayor polishing his own own apple. One would think the rest of council will do a bit of apple polishing on this also.
The first commenter is spot on, this is just circus for the masses.
Can we drift back to the topic of the post? There’s still a week or two before election season kicks in…
RedFred hits the nail on the head which is probably why the topic has drifted. Really, who votes against any of these?
Even though these are tagged “Advisory” only, I would be extremely disappointed if the Council did not act on the term limits – assuming there was support in favor.
I’d like to see commitment that action would be taken on term limits if X amount of support is shown. What should that magic number be – 51%; 2/3rds, 3/4ths?
Has anyone stated, what are the costs of this, and what governmental body pays them?
“What do you, gentle reader, think? Good items? Do you have any you’d like to see as a referendum question?”
That was the topic of the post — do we agree with the mayor’s referenda suggestions, or do we have others that we believe to be more relevant (or amendments to the mayor’s proposed items).
I would say that DGDAD thinks that a referendum should be on the ballot asking voters if the buses should be retained or not. I would vote to retain based on my view that ridership is now sufficient to cover costs (given that PACE provided smaller, more efficient buses to operate) and that I don’t want to see 150 more cars in the downtown during rush hour. If the facts were that the bus system is running in the red and was projected to stay there, my view in the current environment would change. A referendum would certainly put a microscope on this, and I find that interesting.
We have every opportunity to make our views known to the Mayor and Council Members directly or through the upcoming Workshop. To paraphrase from recent Workshop minutes, “A Workshop meeting is intended to provide Council and the public with an appropriate forum for informal discussion of any items intended for future Council consideration or just for general information… The public is invited to attend and encouraged to comment or ask questions in an informal manner on any of the items being discussed or on any other subject. ”
So if we do not like the referenda being proposed by the Mayor, we can make our own suggestions. So maybe Red Fred thinks none of these should be on the ballot — why not explain that at a public hearing or write emails to the Council? DGDAD thinks the buses should be cut, so why not suggest putting that to a yes/no vote instead of one of the proposed items? And Referendum wants Heritage Fest back — so use your computer (email) or cell phone (text/twitter) or your time (at the Workshop) to provide constructive feedback about what you think belongs on the ballot, and what you think should not be on the ballot.
Red Fred — if you told me that I was doing something “to polish my own apple,” I would tend to ignore whatever else you had to say (I am guessing that you would do the same with me if criticism was reversed). You might as well call the mayor a M#@F&%!!!. You have not offered a view other than a negative and personal one without specifics, so I have no idea of what you would expect — do you think we should have a referendum on banning future referenda??.
I have had the opportunity to meet every one of our Council members and the Mayor through meetings that I have attended in Downers Grove. They are all dedicated public servants who may err from time-to-time, but they all work hard at trying to get it right for the community. While compensated, their hourly rate (comensation divided by the # of hours spent on Village matters) is like that of a factory worker in China — they are basically volunteers, given the amount of time they spend on their jobs. Not much of an apple to polish. So instead of the bashing, how about trying constructive feedback.
I’m going to weigh in on this one. I’m glad to see the mayor take his campaign for pension reform to the next, albeit largely symbolic, level.
He’s been commenting for many months on the need for reform and I’ve wondered when those comments would translate into action. I was hoping for a council resolution but an advisory referendum can carry weight if other towns across the state take a similar step.
The issue is fraught with politics and, IMHO, there isn’t a one-size-fits-all solution. I think our legislators are going to have to differentiate not only between newbies and veterans, but also between those who risk their lives in the line of action (firefighters and police) and those who don’t (i.e. educators and municipal workers). In short: A many-tiered system will be necessary going forward.
My father, a former government employee, acknowledges the absurdity of the current system. As a retiree of more than 20 years, he is pulling in just about as much in his pension as he earned during his final years on the job. The taxpayers are paying him almost as much to not work — and for as long — as they paid him to do a job. Taxpayers who, BTW, increasingly must also plan on footing the bill for the vast majority of their own (hopefully lengthy) retirement.
Something’s got to give. And we’ve all got to be part of the solution.
I went back and put the actual questions from the green sheets (esheets?) up top.
EJ — my father (Great Depression kid, WW2 Vet) also acknowledges the absurdity of the pension and entitlements that he receives. He will turn 89 next month, lives in an assisted living facility for $3900/month, regularly takes his kids and grandkids out to dinner, is a walking stimulus program (the way he NOW spends — can’t take it with you), and SAVES money out of the pension/entitlements. (He is a day trader with the extra money.) The pension issue goes way beyond the public sector — those of us currently employed see that. My pension expectations were lowered 8 years ago when my firm dealt with the pending issues. I am afraid that in 3-4 years, Illinois will be paying more for state pensions than we are for current services. That will not be good.
BTW — Dad was a machinist for 38 years at one company. Good company, as it tuned out.
DrJ
the village used to send out a questionnaire about a number of topics. I guess they do it by website now (see garbage poll). Wouldn’t this be cheaper than a referendum on a variety of topics? Also, I have found that the phrasing of the question has as much to do with the outcome of a referendum, than the issue itself.
The buses ( yes, I just won’t leave it alone) were placed on a questionnaire, several years ago. It asked a very simple question…”Do you think the village should have a commuter bus system”? Of course people voted yes. The question did not offer insite, as to other towns not having to financially carry their systems at six figure losses ,like DG, every year. Nor did the question lay out the fact that PACE ran everyone else’s system….we had to run our own, nor did it layout what amounted to several hundred dollar subsidy per resident rider, the DG taxpayer was paying every year. My point is, referendum, specifically when the question is confusing, and certainly lacking facts to help make a informed decision, don’t do much of anything, but waste money…see John S’s response in this thread.
DGDAD
I do not think we disagree about the criteria for keeping or shutting down the buses. We just disagree about the facts. I believe the buses are in the black and you think they are in the red. Doc
The four years are up towards the end of this year; the commuter shuttle should come back before council this fall.
Look it up in the 2010 budget pages D-12 and D-13: DocJ is correct stating the buses actually made a tiny amount of money last year. The expenses dropped $200,000 when the new buses began operating and that is projected to continue through 2014. A one cent per gallon gas tax generates $140,000 in revenue specifically supporting the shuttle.
DrJ.
I too think the buses are probably in the black, depending on how the Village will assess “chargebacks”. Chargebacks can make anything look in the black or red, depending upon the subjectivity used in assessing, “overhead”. A difficult and foggy accounting practice, I am all to familiar with.
The Village gave that service plenty of chances to reach that break even point, and I believe the village has put it on a path to being run outside of our village government. I only wish the village would have given Heritage Fest the same due. Of course you know HF, was a “service”, that attracted 1000′s of residents, when the bus service attracted but a few dozen. I wish we would have put HF on that same “glide path” to breaking even that we gave the bus service…that’s all. May not of had that luxury, given the budget crisis.
All,
What is the problem with having referenda which our council can actually take action on as follows:
1) Should Downers Grove reverese the Home Rule Sales Tax currently charged?
2) Should Downsers Grove reverese the 3 years of 15% increases in Water Rates (yes that is 45% excluding the compounding factor).
3) Should there be term limits in Downers Grove?
I would like to see the buses in there but …it won’t happen. DGDAD you kid yourself if you think it would.
Editor’s note: This comment has been edited in order to remove a personal reference.
Something that was brought to my attention regarding the pension crisis.
http://www.ippfa.org/temp/temp_2010_03_ippfa_response_to_imlcommentary_on_the_COGFA(2).pdf
A spin that I don’t see to often talked about in the news.
The House recently took up a bill to reduce new hire pension benefits, cutting pension from 75% to 60% of last highest salary, and extending the age to begin collecting benefits from 55 to 62. It looks like Mike Madigan will let this one pass, but it could still get buried later. This would effect legislators and judges only.